A very good question that has the autograph world scratching their heads.  What is the lifetime guarantee that was once offered by R&R Auctions of Amherst NH.

Much like the propaganda minister's before him, Joseph Goebbels, and Baghdad Bob, Bobby Livingston's has tackled that head scratching question for us on NET.54 yesterday.

Bobby Livingston who has been a member of that site since Aug of 2009 and has a total blog post count of a WHOPPING 9. (Yes, 9 total posts)

Took to NET 54, (run by convicted felon, Leon Luckey) to brag about the lawsuit that his company is involved in, not being granted "class action" status.

blrrauction  
Bobby Livingston
member
     
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 9
 Court Rejects Class Action Lawsuit Against RR Auction
March 13, 2015 Press Release:

Lawyers for Michael Johnson, the son of an oil industry tycoon, effectively admitted defeat today in Santa Barbara County Superior Court after Judge Donna Geck issued a tentative ruling denying Johnson’s motion for class action certification in a lawsuit filed in October 2012 in which Johnson alleged that $84,000 in autographed items he’d purchased through R&R were later found to be inauthentic.

In what R&R’s attorney’s predict will be a fatal blow to Johnson’s suit, now on its second set of lawyers, Judge Geck issued a six-page tentative ruling Wednesday denying class action status to the case “Because of the findings that the class is not ascertainable, the class is not numerous and individual issues predominate over common issues.”

Read the full story here:

http://autographmagazine.com/court-r...st-rr-auction/
------------------------
Bobby Livingston
RR Auction

The Propaganda minister was quickly asked:

Yesterday, 04:57 PM
    
David Atkatz  
Member
     
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,226

Hey, Bobby. I'm a long-time RR customer--since the 1990s. But now I've got a question: what happened to the lifetime authenticity guarantee?

And the Propaganda minister of RR Auctions answered:

Yesterday, 06:03 PM
blrrauction  
Bobby Livingston
member
     
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Atkatz  
Hey, Bobby. I'm a long-time RR customer--since the 1990s. But now I've got a question: what happened to the lifetime authenticity guarantee?

Thank you for asking because I realize there is confusion out there with regards to our guarantee

As long as you are the original purchaser, you are still afforded a lifetime guarantee on consigning your items with RR Auction. If an item was accompanied by a Full 3rd party letter, you have 5 years to challenge the 3rd party findings.

Apon seeing this, the collector said what everybody is thinking..

earlywynnfan  
Ke.n Su.lik
     
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 920


I guess there is no lifetime guarantee, then.

It's highly unusual for a person involved in a lawsuit, to publically prove the Prosecutor's case on a blog, but stranger things have happened. 

Keep in mind, that while a refund was never offered to Michael Johnson, the offer to RE-SELL his items was offered.

Good to see R&R Auctions are sticking to what got them invoved in this lawsuit all along.  Dodging questions, and offering to RESELL items as long as you are the original purchaser of said items.  If you are not?  Who knows??

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Replies

  • The wording is the legal binding contract.  FOR both.  The COMPANY and the CUSTOMER.

    I would also wager, that actions of the company in transactions of the same matters over previous years and aucitons.

    How did they handle previous requests?  Did they issue refunds before having the items in house or sent back to them?  If so, why was this case not handled the same way?

    IE:  With Ebay/paypal.  If you get a item and you want to return it, if you open a case, you have to provide tracking information back to the seller.  Once ebay/paypal sees that the package was delivered, you get your money back.

    Again, it's going to depend on how they did things in the past, and what their wording is on how this case goes.

    Also, I see the Bobby is saying one thing, yet the "terms and conditions" on RR's website are different then what he is telling people.  They should really spell it out on the blogs a little better, as what he is saying and what that contract you agree to in the T&C are 2 different things.

    AS IS, NO WARANTEE!

    Terms

    53.    RR Auction does not provide any warranties to Bidders or Buyers, whether expressed or implied, beyond those expressly provided for in these Conditions of Sale.  All property and lots are sold "as is" and "where is". By way of illustration rather than limitation, neither RR Auction nor the consignor makes any representation or warranty,

    62.    All Lots sold by RR Auction are accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity. On any lot presented with a Certificate of Authenticity ("COA") issued by RR Auction, that warranty insures only to the original Bidder (as shown in Auctioneer's records) "Bidder". Bidder may not transfer the rights afforded under the COA and it is null and void when Bidder transfers or attempts to transfer the lot. The COA warranty is valid from date of the auction in which Bidder was awarded the lot to five (5) years after its purchase. The COA warranty is valid as to its attribution to the person or entity described or to the lot's usage. The Bidder as well as their heirs, successors and assigns is also given an unconditional lifetime guaranteed that allows the present owner of any lot purchased through RR Auction the right to consign with RR Auction. When the lot is accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity (or its equivalent) from a third-party authentication provider, buyer has no right of return. On lots not accompanied by third-party authentication or under extremely limited circumstances not including authenticity (e.g. gross cataloging error), a Bidder who did not bid from the floor may request Auctioneer to evaluate voiding a sale; such request must be made in writing detailing the alleged gross error, and submission of the lot to Auctioneer must be pre-approved by Auctioneer. A Bidder must notify the appropriate department head in writing of the Bidder's request within three (3) days of the non-floor bidder's receipt of the lot. Any lot that is to be evaluated for return must be received at the office of RR Auction within 35 days after Auction. AFTER THAT 35 DAY PERIOD, NO LOT MAY BE RETURNED FOR ANY REASONS. Lots returned must be in the same condition as when sold and must include any Certificate of Authenticity. If a bidder wishes to challenge the Letter of Authenticity within the five (5) year warranty period, Bidder must present with the claim, authoritative written evidence that the lot is not authentic as determined by a known expert in the field. If Auctioneer concurs that the lot is not as represented, Bidder shall be refunded their purchase price. If the Auctioneer denies the claim, the Bidder may file the dispute with the American Arbitration Association with locale in Boston Massachusetts, Suffolk County, before a single selected Arbitrator selected by the American Arbitration Association. The American Arbitration Association arbitration shall be conducted under the provisions of the Federal Arbitration Act and the Bidder consents to jurisdiction in The Commonwealth of Massachusetts. The challenge to Authenticity must be brought within one (1) year if the Auctioneer denies the claim. After one (1) year, the Bidder hereby releases and discharges RR Auction from any and all legal, equitable, administrative and/or other claims, counterclaims, demands, setoffs, defenses, accounts, suits, debts, dues, actions, causes of action, proceedings, arbitrations, damages, executions, judgments, findings, controversies and disputes, whether known or unknown or suspected or unsuspected, whether in law or equity, that the Bidder have or may have had against RR Auction arising from or relating to any claim whatsoever. Specifically, the COA provided by RR Auction, does not provide for incidental or consequential damages or other indirect damages. Any lot sold with a certificate of authenticity or other warranty from an entity other than Auctioneer is subject to such issuing entity's rules and such conditions are the sole remedy afforded to Bidder. For information as to third party authentication warranties the bidder is directed to contact RR Auction.

  • Ryan

    The signature of Joe [Jackson] is really a sketch of a butterfly in flight.  The Mick Jagger authenticated autograph is Charlie Watts just in case you didn't know.

  • And everyone loves Dolly.  Well, a real Dolly

  • Sophia Loren's signature is very distinguished.  This isn't one of them.

  • I'd love to see the authenticators on a yachting trip

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1NjvZUIvo&feature=player_embedded

  • Authenticity is an art, not science.  I failed art.

  • Meg Ryan is still one of my favorite actresses

  • The wording?  No accountability at the top.  They set the example and others follow.  It's just an opinion.

  • Seems we go around in a circle...   but if this goes up in front of a civil jury, or just the judge do you really believe they will simply limit themselves to "wording" that has a ambguity to it?    Anything is possible but if that is the crux as you are implying then it's complete nonsense.

  • DB:

    That's what this whole case is about!!!  THE WORDING!

    They state, very clearly, we may ask the purchaser to supply the written opinion of one competent authority acceptable to us. We will refund the purchase price after documentation has been submitted.

    NOTHING about sending the item back for the refund!!!

    Does anyone really believe that documentation only means a rejection letter and not the product?

    It does NOT MATTER WHAT WE THINK, it's what they WROTE in those terms and conditions!  NOTHING about returning the product!

    I agree, it's a "pass the buck" mentality that is going on, and that's what's wrong with this hobby.  Nobody wants to accept responsibility for anything, it's "so and so's fault"

    For a prime exampled of this, look at all of those Michael Jackson drawings and photos that hit the market last year.  Every place that was selling them when people contacted them, sent those people to the 3rd party authenticator that certed them!

    Now, it's unknown to all of us, if they did that because he was also the source of them or just the authenticator, and that info will be coming out shortly, but still, what kind of way is that to run a business?

    PASS the buck, it's so and so's fault, they authenticated it... I'm just the seller.

    Yeah, right!  It's truly a buyer beware!  What are all these sticker and paper collector's going to do when they find out they are holding nothing?  A shiny sticker and worthless piece of paper.

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